RDA and FRBRoo Treatment of Aggregates

3 August 2015

RDA and FRBRoo Treatment of Aggregates



Submitted by Gordon Dunsire and Deborah Fritz, Chairs, JSC Aggregates Working Group

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12 Responses to RDA and FRBRoo Treatment of Aggregates

  1. Steve Kelley says:

    I found this proposal very difficult to understand. I think the picture started to get clearer with the graphs. However, I am very fuzzy on what this paper is advocating. It explains how FRBRoo treats aggregates, but then I’m not sure what the authors want to happen after that. What is the RDA community supposed to do?

  2. Kathy Glennan says:

    I just found a helpful article by Patrick Le Bœuf, “Transforming FRBR into FRBRoo”: http://www.cidoc-crm.org/docs/Transforming%20FRBR%20into%20FRBRoo.pdf

    This provided me with some context for the references to FRBRoo in this AggregatesWG discussion paper.

  3. Kathy Glennan says:

    There are a number of questions that I think the ALA response should address:

    1. The role of FRBR-CRM (i.e., FRBRoo, I think!) vs. FRBR-LRM in the future RDA model. Are some of the questions raised in this paper premature since FRBR-LRM isn’t available yet? In other words, what is the underlying FR model for RDA?

    2. What differences articulated in FRBRoo (say the varieties of expressions, or modeling editorial modifications such as self-contained expression and individual work) are useful to incorporate into RDA? What distinctions articulated in this paper does ALA see as helpful?

    3. Since FRBRoo is not designed to be made visible to catalogers, let alone end-users, how does that impact RDA development? As this paper lets us see, the modeling is very complex and difficult to understand.

  4. Kathy Glennan says:

    Generally, I prefer a simpler modeling of FRBR whenever RDA can accommodate it. While it’s intellectually satisfying to model Castle’s introduction to Emma as a separate work (which it certainly is), the bibliographic relevance of such modelling should be taken into account.

    I think RDA should be able to accommodate (but should not mandate) the more complex modeling. If I’m creating “records” or linked data for a Jane Austen archive, then I might want to model Castle’s introduction as a separate work — but most collections owning this “manifestation product type” will not want to do that.

    • Tina Shrader says:

      I strongly agree with this. While I understand the need to model the complexity of the bibliographic universe as it exists, I think some of these distinctions are unlikely to be useful in the vast majority of cases. Accommodating the complexity of the theoretical models while providing simple, clear instructions for practical use by real-life catalogers is a difficult wire for the JSC to walk.

    • Robert Bratton says:

      “I think RDA should be able to accommodate (but should not mandate) the more complex modeling. If I’m creating “records” or linked data for a Jane Austen archive, then I might want to model Castle’s introduction as a separate work — but most collections owning this “manifestation product type” will not want to do that.”

      I agree with Kathy 100% on this.

  5. Kathy Glennan says:

    Do we agree with the notes for further discussion in Appendix A (p. 16 — and appearing throughout Table 1)?

  6. Elizabeth O'Keefe says:

    I actually liked this paper, because the more complex modeling is sometimes what is needed, especially when you are dealing with non-bibliographic collections. (I agree that it should be an option, rather than required.) From the art librarian perspective, I was particularly interested in the second example, for an illustrated edition of the novels of Jane Austen. Though it’s hard to tell from the graph, FRBRoo seems to regard the illustrations as an aggregation of separate works, as opposed to FRBR, which basically regards illustrations created for a specific edition of a work as a single entity, comparable to the publication’s “introductory matter” or “commentary”. In my opinion, the FRBRoo view (if I am interpreting the paper correctly) is preferable. Although catalogers don’t usually create separate records for illustrations in a publication, any more than we catalog separately the poems in an anthology, the illustrations have a separate, prior existence as individual creative works, even if they were intended “merely” for illustration. In this respect, they are no different from graphic works created without the intent of being used as illustrations (although many art works end up being used for illustrative purposes as well).

    There have been quite a few exchanges on various listserves about illustrations, with catalogers voicing puzzlement and/or discontent with where they fit into the FRBR and RDA models. Maybe the FRBRoo model would help–or at least inspire a future CC:DA paper.

  7. Diane Napert says:

    As Steve mentioned, the graphs helped. It’s difficult to discuss, at least for me, and if FRBRoo is not intended to be visible to catalogers that seems like a real impediment for RDA development. As Kathy stated, and Robert agreed, I also prefer simpler modeling and “accommodate” not “mandate”
    On page 17 under recording engineer for sound or video (item at end) I find the use of “designer” odd (though it is used for musical director in table 4). Also, it is labeled 2 which only mentions visual work. Is the label 3 (used for recordist) better? Or should the definition for label 2 be expanded?

  8. kelleym says:

    On the notes in Appendix A:

    I agree that there should be a creator role for participants in recorded works. The definition appears to be limited to performances. Performers clearly are creators, but what then to do with people who aren’t performing, but are captured on film? Or is it meant that everyone who is captured on film is considered a performer?

    I don’t think I would lump editor of moving image work in the same category with costume designer, lighting designer, production designer, recording engineer, sound designer, special effects provider and visual affects provider.

    I am not familiar enough with the role of recordist to comment on that one, but I take it that the analogy with filmmaker is that this person controls and performs all aspects of the creation of the recording.

    Where do composers and choreographers associated with moving images fit into this model?

    I definitely think that there needs to be some way to compensate for the fact that the proposed roles at the work level will be less specific than the expression level roles. How does that work for the kind of modeling that I would like to do where I want the higher aggregate work and the specific roles?

  9. kelleym says:

    One small unrelated comment: In the graph on page 9, how does this work if Emma was illustrated by person A and Pride and Prejudice was illustrated by person? Is there some way to connect related self-contained expressions?

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